Addendum: Vulgarity and I

[greygirlbeast]

These days I am trying so, so hard to be good and not berate "reviewers" who clearly cannot be bothered not to be idiots. But this evening I find that I am in need of some small bit of spleen venting, and so I would like to direct your attention to the following excerpt from a recent "Book Fetish" "review" of Daughter of Hounds:

The use of vulgarities throughout the chapters convey a lack of language skills from Kiernan however in times, I did find myself having to look up one or two words from the sheer unusual ways that they were being used as in the text. I found the cursing overdone because by knowing mere body language, a person would be able to be conveyed as a foul being.

Firstly, this excerpt, like most of the "review," is only marginally literate ("however in times", "the sheer unusual ways", and "used as in", for example, or that whole last sentence). Secondly, the author is an antonym ("evilpoet," Angela), significantly diminishing my opinion of himherit from the outset. Thirdly, didn't I just address this whole profanity thing a week or so ago?

Here's the deal. In large part, Daughter of Hounds is about people who make Mafia hit men look like choirboys, changelings who would just as soon shoot you in the face as give you the time of day. Stolen children raised by inhuman corpse-eating ghouls to be sociopathic killers. And I cannot even for a moment believe that Soldier and Odd Willie, Saben White and the Bailiff, would not be some of the most foul-mouthed motherfuckers imaginable. Period. To have written them any other way would have never rung true to me. Which is to say that my "use of vulgarities throughout the chapters" most certainly does not indicate a "lack of language skills," obviously, but, rather, decisions about characterisation. Otherwise, Emmie and Pearl and Madam Terpsichore, Miss Josephine and Esmeribetheda and Sadie Jasper would all have been just as foul-mouthed as the changelings. Capice? If you don't like the book, fine. Say that you don't like the book. But keep your moral outrage over my characters' colourful and indelicate vocabulary to yourself and, also, keep it from making you look foolish by drawing absurd conclusions as to my general "language skills," especially when you yourself are only just barely capable of writing coherent sentences.

There are other inane charges in the "review" which I will not bother to address. The profanity thing just really drives me to distraction. Also, I'm not linking to the "review." If you want to read the whole thing, I've given you enough information here to find it on your own.

Gods...there are days when the idiots just make me want to stick a very sharp No. 2 pencil (Ticonderoga, since 1913, of course) through my goddamn good eye and be done with it. There's a lot about writing I have to put up with, crap that just comes with the territory, but nowhere have I ever agreed to suffer fools gladly. And I shall not be entering into any such agreement anytime soon.

Comments

[girfan.livejournal.com]

I was very excited to find Daughter of Hounds in my local Forbidden Planet, and my husband got it for me!

Just wondering if you had a chance to send me that item yet...I know you're busy but I worry about the postal service sometimes.

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

Just wondering if you had a chance to send me that item yet...

I have not, but I will soon. Promise.

[txtriffidranch.livejournal.com]

I'm not just speaking from self-loathing from my previous crimes against literature, but you have to remember that book, TV, and movie reviews are always conducted by the bottom-feeders of journalism. Nobody else wants the job, so the only people who stick with film or book criticism are the ones without skills at much of anything else, and most have horrendous chips on their shoulders because they couldn't sell their books if each one came with free beer. Yes, this reviewer is a barely literate moron, but that's because s/he's perfectly willing to work for nothing or damn close to nothing. (This one still doesn't top my favorite example of a bad critic: in this case, this woman was too lazy to write her own reviews, so she plagiarized reviews from others so she could keep up the flow of free books and had the nerve to get indignant when she got caught. However, this one comes pretty close.)

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

(This one still doesn't top my favorite example of a bad critic: in this case, this woman was too lazy to write her own reviews, so she plagiarized reviews from others so she could keep up the flow of free books and had the nerve to get indignant when she got caught. However, this one comes pretty close.)


I don't suppose this was a someone with the initials HK, was it?

I'm not just speaking from self-loathing from my previous crimes against literature, but you have to remember that book, TV, and movie reviews are always conducted by the bottom-feeders of journalism. Nobody else wants the job, so the only people who stick with film or book criticism are the ones without skills at much of anything else, and most have horrendous chips on their shoulders because they couldn't sell their books if each one came with free beer. Yes, this reviewer is a barely literate moron, but that's because s/he's perfectly willing to work for nothing or damn close to nothing.

In this case, the reviews are clearly being written for free. Or at lat that's my impression. Certainly, I hope no one is being paid to write anything this illiterate.

[sclerotic-rings.livejournal.com]

Actually, those weren't the initials, but I also wouldn't be surprised if she's writing under pseudonyms. At the time I found out, I was editing the blessedly defunct SciFiNow.com and was sending her contracts for payment when I discovered that all eight of the reviews she'd sent me were plagiarized. Better yet, she tried to tell me that it was okay because she was "paraphrasing" those other reviews, and didn't understand why I cut off all business dealings with her at that moment. Again, all for the opportunity to keep up her supply of free books.

And about the fervent hope that the reviewer wasn't paid? I have a sneaking suspicion that I could start up a magazine that charged its reviewers $10 a review, and I'd still be overwhelmed with idiots who (a) needed an audience and (b) figured that they'd be "paying their dues" on their way toward becoming professional reviewers. Yes, the self-loathing keeps coming back, because I pretty much did that by buying bulk quantities of the magazines insane enough to publish my gibberish.

[mallochai.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more. It is of the utmost importance that characters speak as characters ought to. Body language can certainly show how a character is feeling, but you can have ten people sitting in a room displaying similar body language and never get a real feel for the characters persona. Those ten people could come from wholly different backgrounds, and speak completely different languages/slangs/whathaveyou. When writing gutter trash characters, it's appropriate to use gutter trash language. The same goes for exalted diction - it's only appropriate with characters who are supposed to display some elevated learning, otherwise it just sounds ridiculous.

(Not that I'm any expert, but my partner is, and he's had this conversation with "writers of repute", as well as "writers in training", on countless occasions.)

So, fuck that "reviewer" and the horse sheheit fucked to get in the door.

(I promise, I'm just trashy enough to have said that appropriately. Too bad about the horse though.)

[blackaire.livejournal.com]

"Gods...there are days when the idiots just make me want to stick a very sharp No. 2 pencil (Ticonderoga, since 1913, of course) through my goddamn good eye and be done with it."

No, no...you stick the pencil in their eyes and laugh as they stumble around trying to pull it out, and when they do their eyeball pops and the vitreous fluid goes everywhere.

(Did I just out myself as a horror writer?)

Anyone who's idiotic enough to take away from your books what that reviewer did should be relegated to picture books, at the very most. I don't think it's the majority opinion.

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's the majority opinion.


Nor do I. And, truthfully, this website ("Book Fetish") is so obscure that likely only a few dozen people ever would have seen this tripe had I not posted a quote here. But it still annoys me.

[sirena73]

Very well said. Those vulgarities are faithful to those characters' natures, and having them speak otherwise wouldn't ring true. Or as I like to say, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. :)

I've just moved from L.A., California, to Suburban Void, Illinois, and am very pleased to report my local library has five copies of your books on their shelves. It was one of the first things I looked for there, actually.

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

I've just moved from L.A., California, to Suburban Void, Illinois, and am very pleased to report my local library has five copies of your books on their shelves. It was one of the first things I looked for there, actually.

Thanks. It's always good to hear I'm in the libraries.

[jomacmouse.livejournal.com]

My local library in non-metropolitan New South Wales has a copy of Daughter of Hounds. Which I've read, after having been baulked of the opportunity of buying a copy of my own as yet. Really, really want my own copy now, to keep and not to have to give back.

Soldier grew on me. I wasn't sure that she would, but she did. Sort of sneaking into my affections. I think that means I'm happy to have her stay around in my head for some time to come...

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

My local library in non-metropolitan New South Wales has a copy of Daughter of Hounds.

Wow. Australia. I may not get to travel very much, but at least my books do. :-)

[jomacmouse.livejournal.com]

Very much so. You'll also be pleased to hear that they have Murder of Angels too. I own a copy of that book, so I needn't envy the library about theirs...

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

Oh, I loved Soldier, too. They were very different, but she sort of reminded me of Dancy, whom I loved too.

[corucia.livejournal.com]

Wow, that reviewer is about 180 degrees off the mark - conveying characterization through appropriate use of multiple independent vernacular speech patterns is damn hard to do convincingly, and when it is done masterfully (as in DoH), it is one of the truly distinguishing signs of a writer at the top of her form. To fail to recognize this aspect of writing, then to complain about the fact that it was done without realizing what a masterstroke it is, and finally to write the complaint in such a poor manner, tells me all I need to know about this reviewer's abilities and sensibilities. Best to hold your nose, step gingerly through the area in the hope that nothing nasty sticks to the bottom of your shoes, and avoid the place forever after...

[awdrey-gore.livejournal.com]

This is a hot-button issue for me because if there is one thing I could go to my grave without ever hearing again, it is the old, tiresome, "You've got such a great vocabulary! Surely you could find a better word than (insert whichever expletive I used that upset the gentle reader)."

People who want to read books without harsh language need to stick to books with characters for whom such language is inappropriate, which means there will be a world of literature made unavailable to them. Hell, they won't be able to read Shakespeare anymore, assuming they are clever enough to pick up on all the extremely bawdy language cloaked in inuendo.

Some people in comments above think those who object to profanity are in the minority, and man I hope they are right because so far, in my very limited experiences, that has not been the case. Who are these people whose lives are so sheltered that the use of "fuck" - context be damned - is so shocking? Give me good, honest profanity over feigned delicacy any day of the week. Ugh!

[jtglover.livejournal.com]

Idiots will be idiots.

As to libraries, you should (if you haven't before) look for yourself in WorldCat next time you're at Emory, or other academic library of choice. It will hopefully be rewarding to see how very many libraries you do appear in. :) Speaking of which, I'm currently enjoying From Weird and Distant Shores thanks to interlibrary loan.

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

Idiots will be idiots.

And president...

[stsisyphus.livejournal.com]

As you must take the high road, I feel compelled to take the lower.

Sure, you could make a threat like this:

"As a unexpected consequence of the expulsion of a relatively insignificant mote of elemental lead (hypersonic velocity, of course, withstanding as a circumstance) from this proximally-oriented handheld firearm presently contacting the limb traditionally affixed to a superior-rostal aspect of the body (which does, most commonly, result in grievous cranial damage, grostesque destruction soft tissue, and immeasurable cortico-cerebral trauma), I anticipate seizing the welcome opportunity presented by the radical creation of a moist, temperate body cavity to submerge my tumescent glans within the wound and agitate the aforementioned limb until I achieve a gratification that satisfies both my libidinous & choleric desires. If you wish to forestall such a gruesome destiny, I caution compliance in its most expedient permutations."

Or you could say,

"Get in the fucking car before I dome your punk ass and skullfuck the hole."

I might be paraphrasing here too, but I'm sure Odd Willie has probably opined that most everyone, regardless of cultural or linguistic background, speaks "gun to the head". And you don't need any high-falutin' language skills at all for that. Maybe that was the kind of "body language" this reviewer was referring to.

But the point is: Which one suits the story & characters better? Should Odd Willie start drinking top shelf blue-agave special-reserve tequila instead of rotgut mezcal too? Perhaps the Bailiff should have scones and fresh genmaicha tea with his boy harem crocheting circle?

[retrophoto.livejournal.com]

The use of vulgarities throughout the chapters convey a lack of language skills from Kiernan however in times, I did find myself having to look up one or two words from the sheer unusual ways that they were being used as in the text.

Haven't ventured in this neck of the woods for a very long time, but I immediately thought...

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[moonwiggle.livejournal.com]

In large part, Daughter of Hounds is about people who make Mafia hit men look like choirboys, changelings who would just as soon shoot you in the face as give you the time of day. Stolen children raised by inhuman corpse-eating ghouls to be sociopathic killers. And I cannot even for a moment believe that Soldier and Odd Willie, Saben White and the Bailiff, would not be some of the most foul-mouthed motherfuckers imaginable.

I'm going to use that paragraph whenever I'm persuading people to go and buy DoH (and Threshold and Low Red Moon too, and then whilst they're at it they should really just go all out and try to find a copy of Silk and Murder of Angels and hell, maybe even a copy or two of the Five of Cups and Alabaster etcetera And I am ending this horrible parenthesis monster now as an act of love and justice)

[ladyeuthanasia.livejournal.com]

I would hope that people could dismiss that review and others like it based on the poor writing alone. But we're peering into a world of diminishing literacy it seems. I'm not quite done with the book. I'm somewhere around the beginning of Chapter 9: The Bailiff. I've observed all kinds of things about the use of language and characterization, and even connections between characters. I can't fathom creating a character like Soldier or Willy Lothrop for that matter without a lot of vulgarity. They contrast beautifully with the other characters this way. Also, I hear echoes of Soldier in Emmie and, conversely, Emmie in Soldier. This happens through language cues and other character action. If the reviewer doesn't see that, then that's one for the scrap heap.

[retrophoto.livejournal.com]

We're peering into a world of diminishing brain cells. And what appears to be an increasingly shallow gene pool.

[an-honest-liar.livejournal.com]

I can sympathize with your frustration. That review really was pretty insipid.

Then again, what applies to music applies to most other artistic crafts. I think it was Frank Zappa who said something about music reviewers were involved in the business of writing about what they couldn't understand for those who couldn't read (or something to that effect).

Barring that, there's no shortage of sentiment that reviewers are really bitter failures at whatever they happen to be reviewing. Trust me, as a reviewer of independent comics, that's never far from my mind - particularly when I don't like the title in question. O_O;;

[cause-catyljan.livejournal.com]

They focussed on the language, did they happen to notice there was a story in there?

Numpties

[fetishman.livejournal.com]

please don't with the eye stabbing - i've only recently been introduced to your work and i was beginning to rather enjoy it.

dissimilar but similar - john kovalic the cartoonist recently posted his rejection letter from some big cartoonists society:

http://muskrat-john.livejournal.com/157141.html

idiocy abounds

[seraphcelene]

I just finished reading Daughter of Hounds last night. So much for reading it for only thirty minutes a day. I haven't read the review but I admit that I'm rather astonished. I never care for gratuitous profanity, I find it jarring and distastful. Having said that, I never once noticed any sort of overuse in the book. The language was organic. It's the way that those characters were supposed to speak considering who they were and where they came from. Reading the snippet of the review you've posted, I was totally surprised because I REALLY didn't notice it.

Having just read some of the thread, I am also surprised that reviewers are asshat bottom feeders. Admittedly I don't read many reviews, although in your case I picked up Murder of Angels after I randomly read a review in Premiere. I'm SO VERY GLAD that I did because you're pretty much made of awesome. Amazon and me are spending some quality time together as I get caught up.

Ok. So. Nothing at all useful to add to the discussion. But I do want to say how much I loved Daughter of Hounds, the characters, the locale (a character all by itself), the mythology, all of it. Between you and Neil Gaiman, I'm also ready to pick me up some Lovecraft.

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

That "review" seems sub-literate at best. If it helps any, I just finished DOH in an all-night sitting the other day, and was really impressed -- particularly with the dialogue between Soldier and Odd Willie, and Soldier and Emmie, which alwasy felt very real. And in one of the most awful moments of the book (for me, anyway), when Soldier tells Emmie what she'll do to the people in the store if Emmie tells them, she doesn't use much profanity at all. It's so awful because we _know_ what she can do, because we've _seen_ her do it.

[seraphcelene]

Echoing the sentiment. I just read the review in its "sub-literate" entirety. Very, very poorly written. Definitely not a review that would, or should, ever be taken seriously.

The reviewer's language skills

[bucketopants.livejournal.com]

What I liked about the review, was that while trying to say that your language skills were not to his liking, his skills were harmed by his weak attempts to use words and phrases he wasn't familiar with in order to seem smarter himself, giving you credit to understand his "language skills".

The review...

[alvyarin.livejournal.com]

It has been revised. (snickering)

The Editor says it was even run through a spell & grammar check but ow, my poor eyes. >< You can still write circles around said reviewer.

Re: The review...

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

The Editor says it was even run through a spell & grammar check but ow, my poor eyes

And, wow, what a surprise to see that the revised version is even snottier than the original. I love the part about getting grammar right being a waste of their resources...

[seraphcelene]

The revision is totally my fault. We exchanged emails, I should send them to you. The thing that's pissing me off right now is that I told her upfront that she didn't have to like the book, just clean up the damn review because it was poorly written. I got one response, replyed and different hear from them again.

I won't be going there again. And the chick just can't write because EvilPoet's email sounded just like the original review. I'm betting the Editor in Chief actually did her job and edited the piece.

[greygirlbeast.livejournal.com]

I'm betting the Editor in Chief actually did her job and edited the piece.


I suspect you are right. I don't think the person who wrote the original could have done that edit.

The revision is totally my fault. We exchanged emails, I should send them to you.

Don't feel too badly about it. "Book Fetish" is an utterly rinky-dink website with virtually no visibility or influence. Not the sort of review organ that sells books (or causes them not to be sold).

I won't be going there again. And the chick just can't write because EvilPoet's email sounded just like the original review. I'm betting the Editor in Chief actually did her job and edited the piece.

Would you please forward the e-mails to me? I'd just like to have them for the record. Also, are you aware that the editor is accusing you of not having answered his/her e-mail?

[tarots.livejournal.com]

*snicker*

I thought the first review was a personal attack.

The revised review seems to have been written by a different pen, so to speak.

And "Kiernan also continues in this mistake by showing us that she knows exactly how to convey a good battle scene." made me aware of my total lack of reading comprehension skills. Oh well.

Rinky-dink is very generous of you.

[reverendcrofoot.livejournal.com]

But did you ever consider having a character, while being disemboweled, say, "Fiddle Sticks." Or perhaps, "Fooey?"

People swear, curse and otherwise use strong language in real life, Why not in fiction? Maybe if books had warning labels like other media? (This book contains profanity and brief sexual situations.) This stupidness could stop.